“And I have to tell you, what I’m seeing in the United States right now is frightening to me, because I am seeing a complete division of two sides of a society,” Jonathan Jakubowicz, the Venezuelan-born writer and director of the Roberto Duran biography “Hands of Stone,” tells me over the phone during our interview.

As the Duran boxing movie, starring Edgar Ramírez and Robert De Niro, makes its way to DVD and Blu-ray November 22nd, I spoke with Jakubowicz about the frightening similarities he sees between the political unrest he lived through in Venezuela as a child and the current state of US politics, the success of his first film “Secuestro Express,” (the top grossing movie in Venezuela’s box office history, defeating former champions “Titanic” and “The Passion of the Christ”) and having salsa music play on the red carpet for the “Hands of Stone” world premiere at Cannes for the first time in the festival’s history.

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It’s been a few months since “Hands of Stone” was released in theaters domestically. How have you been spending your time since then, up until the film’s DVD and Blu-ray release on November 22^nd?

Well I mean, part of it has been releasing the movie in other territories. Cause you know, since it’s not a big Studio simultaneous release, there’s a delay between territories. I went to the Morelia film festival in Mexico and have been promoting it. The movie actually just opened in most of Latin America in theaters. So, in a way, it’s actually been and extended (laughs), campaign.

But I have been also writing what I anticipate is my next production, and I’m also about to publish my first book. It’s in Spanish, and it’s gonna start in Venezuela where I’m from. So it’s been a mix of promoting and finishing the editing of my book and writing the next movie that I’m directing.

“But what really destroyed [Venezuela] was our inability to communicate, and our inability to listen to the other side.”

You mentioned you grew up in Venezuela. What was it like growing up there, and how did that influence how you made your first movie, “Secuestro Express,” which was a huge hit internationally and put you on the map?

It was trippy, because when I was a child,Venezuela was a nation that felt like the best place in the world. We had an oil boom and everybody was doing business, and we were known as the richest place on Earth with the most beautiful women. And the problem is that it started going down from there (laughs). Because there was a lot of corruption and every time the place became a little more dangerous, a little more divided, by the time I was a teenager you could feel a lot of resentment between the poor and the middle class and the rich. By the time I went to University, I went to a public university which is free, so you have every part of society in the same classroom, and you really start to understand the complete division that exists around society, and that’s part of where “Secuestro Express” was born. A movie that shows a society that is extremely divided –

And I have to tell you, what I’m seeing in the United States right now is frightening to me, because I am seeing a complete division of two sides of a society–

I was going to ask you if you currently see any similarity between the political unrest in Venezuela that you lived through and the current climate of US politics…

It’s extremely similar – it’s frighteningly similar. Because you see, there are two sides that are not even interested in understanding the other side because they are so convinced that they are right. There is a complete rejection of the other side. And we’re talking – just like in Venezuela – halves of a nation. It’s not even a group. We’re talking about one-half of a nation.

And if you ask me what destroyed Venezuela, the country has been completely destroyed… yes, it was corruption, yes, (Hugo) Chávez was a terrible person. But what really destroyed us was our inability to communicate, and our inability to listen to the other side. And I am alarmed by a different reason most people are alarmed here in the states, because everyone’s alarmed by whose appointment, the new appointment that (President-Elect Trump) made, or this or that, or is he a good person or a psychopath – I’m alarmed by the division, and I don’t see anybody working in the direction of uniting the country for real, and not just pretending that that’s what your discourse is. And I can tell you from experience, nothing destroys a country more than division in its population.

And I tried to communicate that side with “Secuestro Express,” and that movie was extremely successful in Venezuela, but I don’t think anybody listened to it (laughs), because we kept going in the wrong direction. It’s a very tough situation for us right now, and part of what my book is about in Venezuela is that, and it’s sort of another message that I’m trying to send to our society so that we’ll try to rebuild the nation after this disaster.

“And when you start realizing that there’s no black and white, that there are shades of gray in every reality, and you start understanding the other side… I think that is always more fulfilling than rooting for the good guy against the villain.”

Do you currently live in the US or still in Venezuela?

I live mostly in LA right now. I live between LA and Panama City where I spent most of the last three years. But this year I’ve been mostly in LA, and I’m probably going to stay here for a while. The book was written in Spanish, and it’s, to tell you the truth, was written specifically for Venezuela. It’s actually already available on Amazon.

So that’s why I wrote it. Sometimes you do something for the whole world, sometimes you do something for a specific group of people, and I don’t think because I’m making a big movie right now I shouldn’t make something specifically for my country which I feel needs to hear a few things more than anybody else needs to hear from me (Laughs). So I made it for my country and if it’s successful somewhere else, then we’ll see. But that’s not the intention.

The political unrest is certainly a big part of “Hands of Stone,” showing the US-Panamanian conflict of the 80s. Was that something you were looking forward to bringing to the big screen along with the story of Roberto Duran?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Duran’s story is inevitably linked to the States and his relationship with the Americans and the canal zone that was next door to the neighborhood where he grew up. His father was an American marine who was stationed in Panama. So yes, you can say he had American blood in him. And he felt the American father who abandoned his mother was sort of an occupation of his life, you know? So he was the son of an occupier. So those things are a big part of who he is, and a big part of why he captures so much of the sense of Panama when he was fighting. I think that  is something that doesn’t only relate to Panama, but to most of Latin America and many other countries in the world that have that love and hate relationship with the United States, a country that we all feel gives us so much, but also takes away so much.

And there has been so many boxing movies that celebrate American fighters, I thought it was an exciting opportunity to tell the story of a boxing hero who is fighting American fighters, and obviously it was a risky move, and a lot of people react, in America, with a short circuit (Laughs), cause it’s like, “Wait a minute, am I supposed to root against Sugar Ray Leonard?” (Laughs)

But that’s part of what I like to do, and it was sort of the same with “Secuestro.” A  lot of people started identifying with the kidnappers in the movie. And when you start realizing that there’s no black and white, that there are shades of gray in every reality, and you start understanding the other side… I think that is always more fulfilling than rooting for the good guy against the villain. And it’s obviously more challenging sometimes because we’re used to being given these stories are clearly the good guy and he has nothing bad about him, and the bad guy has nothing good about him – but I think that is part of what creates these divisions in society. That we’re used to not hearing any other sides, and I always like to put that in the movies and the stuff that I write. Always try to give you the other perspective as well.

“There was salsa music on the red carpet of Cannes for the first time in history.”

What was the experience of bringing “Hands of Stone” to this year’s Cannes film festival? I understand it had standing ovations.

It was incredible, because even though the movie is you know, as such a big scope and so many big stars, it was really made by me and my wife. She produced it, I wrote it and directed it, raised the money for it, cut it in my home. There was nothing that we didn’t do in this movie. And to go there, in the biggest festival in the world… there was salsa music on the red carpet of Cannes for the first time in history.

Oh, wow!

We took our own culture, about our own hero, with our own actors, half in Spanish, and we were able to get to the biggest place you can premiere a movie in the world. And then for it to be received with such an emotional reaction by the French audience, it was mind-blowing. And Duran was there watching the movie for the first time, which was a risk that I took, and could have cost me my life (laughs) if he didn’t like the movie. But he starts crying, and obviously when he started crying De Niro started crying then I started crying. It was crazy. It was an incredible moment, you know. Completely nerve-racking. I still can’t really see the videos because I get too nervous. But it was a dream come true beyond a dream.

When you’re a film student, you laugh at the notion that one day you may premiere a movie at Cannes, you know? Cause it’s beyond your dreams. And the fact that it happened with this specific movie that we’re so passionate about, it’s just something that will make me happy forever.

Congratulations again. You were talking about how you made this movie with your wife, who is also your producing partner. Did you develop the movie, and when did that process begin?

Well, I first heard of Duran when I was a kid. Growing up in Venezuela, Duran is some sort of a superhero that you hear stories about. And I decided to develop it – and yes, I did develop it and wrote it, and chased Duran for his life rights and everything.

I moved here and I started getting offers to do movies in which Latinos were drug traffickers, rapists, or criminals, and I felt that you know, there’s nothing wrong with telling those stories, but there may be space to tell different stories about Latinos and start changing the stereotypes that have been so embedded in American culture, and that’s how I got to Duran. He’s a positive Latino figure and when I started digging into his story I found Ray Arcel, his Jewish trainer, and I’m Venezuelan and I’m Jewish so I felt like there was something about this story perhaps that I could tell better than anybody (laughs). And I fell in love with it, and never stopped until it got made.

What was it like putting the cast together – specifically getting Edgar Ramírez and Robert De Niro, such commanding actors. How did you direct them on set?

Well, De Niro… I knew, when I was doing the research, I knew Duran had met De Niro when De Niro was preparing for “Raging Bull” and Duran was a World Champ. So I knew there was a narrow possibility that I could get into De Niro’s head with the notion of telling the Roberto Duran story. And I sent him my first movie “Secuestro Express,” and the script, and he really liked my first movie and he liked a lot about the script, but he had some issues with Ray Arcel’s voice, he wanted to hear more of Ray Arcel’s voice, he felt that if he doesn’t hear his voice he doesn’t know how to play him. And it was a process in which I actually found Arcel’s widow, and she happened to have a notebook where she wrote what she called “Ray-ism’s,” which are things only Ray used to say, and I incorporated that into the script and then brought De Niro to meet with her, and we spent a lot of time working on the script. It was about six months before De Niro decided to commit to the movie because he felt that the script was ready.

It was a tough and exciting and nerve-racking process in itself – but it was good because by the time De Niro came to set, I already had a relationship with him, so I wasn’t as nervous as I would’ve been if I had just met the guy. It was a very good thing that we went through all that process.

“When you’re a film student, you laugh at the notion that one day you may premiere a movie at Cannes, you know? Cause it’s beyond your dreams. And the fact that it happened with this specific movie that we’re so passionate about, it’s just something that will make me happy forever.”

And Edgar I had known for a decade because he’s Venezuelan too, so I’ve known his career and I’ve known him personally. We always wanted to work together, and he’s such a nice guy, I couldn’t believe he could play Duran! But I met with him and he was so in love with the project and the character, and he promised me that he wasn’t that nice of a guy (laughs). And he committed, he moved to Panama, he trained for eight months in Panama, in some of the poorest gyms in the ghetto, and completely changed and transformed his body, and the way he talks and the way he acts, was basically starving during the shoot. That gave him an edge I don’t think that I’ve seen in any of his movies. And it was a joy to work with him and to work with Bob together, we developed an incredible relationship and we are extremely close right now and very good friends. We’re discussing doing something together again, and Bob has become a little bit of a mentor for both of us. I don’t make any big decisions without asking him his advice. He has been around more than anybody else and has been on top for so long, and he’s a nice man. He’s a very loving family man, so I feel it’s a treasure to have developed such an incredible relationship with him. 

Is there anything else you’d like to add?

I think “Hands of Stone” a movie that speaks to a very specific moment that we’re living right now in which half of this nation have been either even glory or defeat in unprecedented dimensions. And I think this movie is about rising when you fall, it’s about following your dreams, but it’s also about forgiveness and understanding of the people who hurt you, and the people who even with their strategy, and without bad intentions, completely destroy your life. I think that the movie can resonate with a lot of what I feel is happening in the United States right now, and hopefully invite people to communicate a little further, because there’s nothing good about the path of division that we have all taken in the last few days.

And finally – where can audiences see your first movie, “Secuestro Express”?

It’s everywhere. It’s on iTunes, Amazon, Netflix, it’s everywhere. Just make sure it’s not “dubbed” (laughs). Sometimes, there’s a dubbed version around that I hate. But if you can handle subtitles…. it’s a movie that I’m very proud of. And sometimes it plays on HBO Latino!